Episode 007 - Guest Interview: Amy the Accountant
Accountant Amy Timmer joins us today from the Netherlands! Amy explains how accounting has nothing to do with math, what she does to maintain her calm (hint: it involves numbers. And paint), and one thing small business owners should stop doing.
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Show Notes
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Guest: Amy Timmer
If you would like to get in touch with Amy, please reach out to us and we will connect you.
How to Be an Artist by Jerry Saltz
We were just kidding about affiliate links for $250 t-shirts ;)
Mint tool
Personal Capital tool
Author and illustrator Oliver Jeffers
The 21 Balloons by William Pène du Bois
Homework:
Release the stress over finances. Just focus on doing what you love and the rest will follow.
Rate, follow, like, or share The Art$ with a friend.
We would love to hear from you! Email us your questions and ideas at podcast at artbymegan dot com
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Megan: Okay. Ready?
Friend: Yup.
Megan: I don't want to waste your time. 1, 2, 3.
Friend: Welcome to The Arts, a brand new podcast about art and money. I've spent my career managing at some of the world's largest financial institutions. So I can't tell you my name, but trust me, talking about money is my jam.
Megan: And I'm Megan, I'm an artist and a teacher. And now co-host of this amazing podcast. We're having this conversation because we came to a realization. We have no idea how the other person spends her workday.
Friend: Or her money. So let's chat about it.
Megan: On today's show, we're talking all about the Benjamins. I am so excited about that joke!
Friend: How many do you know?
Megan: Nope. Just this topic. Do not wait, hold on. Do you know what that means? Right.
In the United States of America.
Friend: I'm just learning.
Uh, yeah.
Megan: All right, well.
Friend: Benjamin's are hundreds, right? Okay. I've only been in the U S a few years and in none of them, did I carry cash? So that joke is you are showing your age,
Megan: my jeans are are also showing my age, but anyways, we're talking today to an accountant. That was it.
Friend: I was thinking of making a joke, but I didn't have one.
Megan: Well, It's not funny. Money is not funny.
Friend: It's not funny, but it does have some great stories to tell, stay with us. It's going to be absolutely fine. Amy is amazing. She is the .. Well, she's my favorite accountant and I have worked with accountants my entire career.
Megan: Yeah, for you. That's like a higher ranking system than me where I'm like, she's THE accountant.
Friend: No, she's, she's the best. And it's going to be perfectly fine. No sweating on this episode.
Megan: All right, well, let's do this, but first The Scene.
Friend: The Scene. I wanted to ask you first today, what is trending? What are you? You please tell me. You have not read another book in the five minutes since we last recommended another book what's happening.
Megan: I'm having a bit of a polygamous book, adventure.
I just dip in and out. You know, it's like very flirty. I don't know. I'm just not committing well right now I have too much on my mind, but I'll tell you what all I think about is like, how are people consuming art and media these days, specifically people who are not like me.
So people who are out there who want to learn about art or who want to invest in art, I really want to know where are they finding? The art, which is a really dumb question when I'm saying it out loud here, but when I ask clients, one of them recently told me they Googled local artist and I popped up, which is great, but I'm like, how did you like really?
But how, and also That's great for that one moment, but I'd like to have like a deeper knowledge of what people who are searching for art are looking for. All that to say, Not even getting into like digital art, because that makes my brain hurt. But how are people searching for physical paintings? That's on my mind.
Friend: That's a great question.
That's something we need to get to the bottom of, maybe we could run a poll or like a, you know, have a quiz or something on the show notes. I'll see if I can figure that out.
Megan: Oh, I like that.
Friend: And it would be very interesting.
Megan: Yes. I think these things snowball over time also.
Friend: Yeah. And you know, it's also a question. A lot of small businesses have, and I love it when I am interacting with an owner and they say, how did you find us? That's like the first question or one of their most important questions, because they're all trying to figure it out.
Megan: why can't we find this information? Is the internet that weird and vast and full of rabbit holes,
Friend: Yes.
Yes. I think so. someone at Google knows.
Megan: I don't want to, brag, but I'm going to brag.
Friend: Toot, toot.
Megan: I don't know. if you know, here you are speaking to a Pinterest celebrity.
Friend: No, I didn't know.
Megan: It doesn't matter at all
my point is it doesn't matter? No. I mean, when I look at my stats on Pinterest. it's as if I'm Madonna, but I'm like, Mmm, that's not correlating to anything. No one's ever said, Hey, we found you on Pinterest. Like it doesn't no offense. Pinterest, love you. But like what?
Friend: Yeah, it doesn't translate.
Megan: Yeah. Cause we have to get to the bottom of this.
Friend: I personally, find artists by befriending people and then realizing they paint stuff and then wanting to support them.
Megan: I feel like, honestly, that's the way to go because word of mouth works really well. If you're a decent human.
Friend: All of the paintings I have purchased and any that I am contemplating purchasing are from people I know which means as the artists, like how, how tiring is that? You have to have actual, real friends.
Lots of them.
Megan: Are you kidding? I would rather just chat with people all day long instead of like, worry about algorithms.
So problem solved. Cool. All right.
Friend: There you go, I think we got it.
Megan: Okay.
Cool. All right. So, what's new in your world of thinking about things?
Friend: Oh, well, I had a fun book for you this week that I wanted to share. You probably don't need it, but I, that maybe there was some little nuggets in there and definitely for the audience like me, who just wondering, like, how do I get more creative? In my life or I have this dream, I don't know how to pursue it.
It's called How to Be an Artist by Jerry Saltz.
Do You know him?
Oh, okay.
Megan: He's a legend in the industry.
Friend: I did not know. He writes like a legend.
He is an art critic for those of us who are polygamous with our reading, this is a great one to just add into the mix. It's an easy read. It's fun. Every chapter is a little piece of advice about how to create, you know, how, how to get your art going.
And I found it very practical. He had little homework assignment. I loved it. It was just like us. So we could maybe find some ideas there, but, mostly I loved it because the very last piece of advice was, "and also, p.s. make time to go dancing." And I was like, yes, that is how we should be living!
Megan: Surely that is the answer, right? I mean, if, if someone's creative, their life is quite full of adventure or content. That is awesome. Right?
Friend: Yeah, yeah. it's not just a singular dimension. Anyways, I thought it was really great. Easy read quick, and I would recommend it.
Megan: That's cool.
Friend: Yeah.
Megan: I will check it out. Thank you.
Friend: Yeah, no problem. All right. Let's get to the main exhibit for the day.
The Main Exhibit.
Megan: Okay. We're super excited today to be joined by Amy. Amy Timmer is a certified public accountant or CPA and has been supporting small and medium sized businesses with a public accounting firm. For over 10 years.
Amy has lived everywhere in Idaho, California, Hawaii, New York, and currently, she's living in the Netherlands with her husband and son, where she's learning to speak Dutch drive while surrounded by bicycles and live in one time zone while working in another.
Friend: Welcome Amy.
Amy: Thank you happy to be here.
Friend: Yeah, we're so excited. Thank you for joining us. I have been telling Megan about you since before day one, when the show is just a concept, I was like, we definitely need Amy because Amy is chill and she's confident, but humble, you know, that confident, but humble, smart, that we all hope for, it's just amazing. And also we need to hear from some accountants because, uh, wisdom. So, Amy, I could digress here and talk about how long it's been and how much I need to come and see you. But that is not what we're here for. It might get awkward for, everyone, including Megan.
Megan: Never never awkward.
Friend: And we know you're, you know, you're squeezing us into a very busy schedule. so we'll just dive right in.
Megan: All right. So we've read your bio. I mean, we, we agree. It sounds super nice. I've I've actually never met. I don't think, well, no, that's incorrect. I've only met a few female accountants who were young and I wanted them to know truly, like, what do you do all day? I don't mean this in a rude way, but this is like a silly, silly question.
Um, I just can't imagine. So what do you do all day?
Amy: You make it sound like we're unicorns or something, but a lot What do I do all day? It depends on the day. It's, a lot of, a lot more human interaction than you would think. When you think of an accountant, it's a lot of meetings with clients. It's a lot of internal meetings with colleagues.
You do have behind the scenes, screen-time. Looking at numbers or viewing things, running reports, but it's a lot of interfacing with people and explaining things to them, asking questions, getting information, trying to get things buttoned down the end of the day.
Megan: interesting. I never pictured it that way.
Friend: Yeah.
I picture it all black and white and numbers and dollar signs.
Amy: No, it's a lot of fact finding it's like, so much of your time is just gathering information and trying to understand what happened and is it recorded correctly? And never seen this before, how do I record it? so it's a lot of information gathering is probably the best way to describe it.
Megan: That's cool.
Friend: Off script were you good at math?
Amy: No,
I hate. That's like one, when I was reading this interview, we can talk about it later. But when I was reading this, I was like, that is the biggest misconception about accounting. No accountant is good at math. None of them.
Megan: Oh,
Amy: like it's not accounting and math are not, not, in the same bubble.
Megan: How so?
Friend: It an art not a science?
Megan: Mind blown emoji.
Amy: There's like very, very little math in accounting. It's like basic math, like adding and subtracting is as much math as I ever do.
Megan: So, but you have to be competent at like formulas. You have to build to set up the information properly.
Amy: Yes. Like if you can build Excel formulas, that will help you a lot. But even then it's like some, and v lookup and pivot tables. It's not calculus geometry. Like it's nothing advanced math.
Megan: This is shocking.
Friend: V lookup and pivot tables is still
Megan: my face got scared for a minute, but it's
Amy: Just ignore those words.
Friend: It's still skill. Yeah.
Amy: It's not math. I would say because I also hate math. Like I hated calculus, hated
Megan: Interesting.
Friend: So did many of us, and then we were repelled by
Amy: Anything with numbers.
Friend: That's right. Work that sounded like it would be that. So what was it that attracted you to the career and what do you think it is that accountants need to be good at, if not math?
Amy: Yeah. I kind of fell into it by accident. I was a freshman in college. I had no idea what I was doing with myself or what to major in. So I took a, one of those aptitude, like career assessment. And it said accountant. So I took accounting 1 0 1 or whatever it was called just to see like what even is this thing.
and the professor and the class, like at the end of the school year pulled me aside and was like, Hey, you're really good at this. You did really well without a lot of help. You should consider this as a career because if you start in accounting, you can do a lot of different things. If you have that foundation."
Megan: Well,
Friend: Whoa!
Amy: And I didn't have any other career aspirations or ideas.
So I just was like, okay, do that.
Megan: See, so chill. So confident, but chill.
Friend: Was it love at first sight for you or was it else? Like having the validation from a few sources.
Amy: There are parts of accounting. I really enjoy what I will say back to the math thing is it's not math, but it's organizing. I would say it's much more organizing numbers and like knowing how to organize numbers rather than math it's knowing, oh, these are the rules. These are the numbers. How do I match the numbers into the rules?
And the rules might be like IRS rules or public accounting rules or whatever, just basic accounting standards. and that I really liked like my mind, I like baking, I like paint by numbers. I like here's the rules and like follow these steps and then you get an outcome and that's what accounting is.
So
it's very like straightforward. Follow the recipe here is the result.
Megan: I'm like mind blown.
Friend: That's fantastic. That's such a great story.
Megan: Why aren't we telling little girls this more? I mean, not that I guess you're saying that you're not a unicorn, but I still feel like it's like a, it's not a job. That little girls are like, I would be really good at that.
Friend: it's not scary.
Megan: No, it's not scary at all. Like you're saying it's achievable and organizing and it sounds peaceful.
Friend: sounds orderly.
Amy: Yeah, it is, but that's when you get to my level, not that I'm at, like I said, at a high level, but once you get past entry level, then that's where you're getting into more of the, like, what is this number? What does this mean? Why is this here? What's the rule for this? Let me go have five meetings to figure out how we're supposed to handle this.
And then it gets less orderly and fun. But at its at its core, it is a nice orderly skill and job.
Friend: It sounds wonderful. Actually, I think you've just sold me on it.
Megan: Okay. This is like a meditation class.
Amy: And I, yeah, I loved it in college. Cause all your assignments are like put the pretty numbers in there. Pretty little boxes and get an a, like it's was fun.
Megan: Meanwhile, my dumb-dumb self would be like, but why, but how, but, but what's the bigger meaning. Yeah. Like where's what number? So like it's not for everyone.
Friend: And also there's some pretty serious exams, right?
Amy: Yeah, but they're optional. You don't, you're not required to get your CPA license depending on your career goals.
Friend: Okay, well, that leads me pretty well into the next question I wanted to ask you, which is around mobility. And you've moved around a lot as Megan shared with your bio and we're currently talking to you and you're living and working in the Netherlands. Is accounting country or jurisdiction agnostic, or do you have to certify in order to work in different places?
Amy: Yeah, it depends on the type of work you do. So if you're doing taxes, you do have to be certified. And in the country that you're working in with that country's certifying board. If you're just doing accounting for small and medium-sized businesses, there's no certification required. always a nice thing to get your CPA or there's a, several different certifications out there.
It looks great on your resume. It looks great for your career prospects, but as far as being required, that's only if you're doing like audit work or tax work, something looked at by the government and regulatory boards. And by just your your day to day, if you want to help small businesses or Etsy sellers do their accounting, you don't need any kind of certification.
Megan: Can I ask a followup question that is so concerning?
So anyone can call themselves an accountant.
Amy: Yes.
Megan: That's a little dangerous. So how do I, as a small business owner, protect myself from the person who's a self-proclaimed expert?
Amy: Yeah, that's a great question. You can look at certifications or ask what kind of certifications they might have. Probably the best way, Just like a lot of our other services is word of mouth referrals. Like what of what experiences have people, you know, how, and with them.
Megan: Again, mind blown.
Friend: All right. Very interesting. Is that why you can move around because your career's portable?
Amy: Yes. Yeah. If I was in the type of accounting, I do, I don't do tax or audit. So. I don't mean I live in Europe now and I don't need to be certified in Europe to do what I do. So it's in that way. It's very flexible.
Megan: That's cool.
Friend: All right, next question for you. We have an analogy here at the show that finance is the motherhood role of business and bankers are like the nannies. And I was wondering if you, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but I was wondering if you could help us expand the analogy, any ideas around where accountants would fit into the family analogy?
Amy: Well, that's a great question. I would say accountants are the handyman or the maintenance man of the home. So what they do is boring and not exciting, but if it's not done, you're going to have big problems.
Megan: Yeah.
Amy: And it's, it's the kind of thing, like you don't notice it and don't want to think about it until it's either not there or it goes wrong.
So we're the little maintenance men.
Megan: I think the handyman thing you're playing it down a lot because when something breaks people like that's an emergency, right?
It's like moms and the handyman or handy lady in this case are extremely essential to the operation.
Amy: Yeah, but they're like the person you don't see or think about. But you need them.
Megan: much like a mom.
Amy: yes,
Friend: And when you need them, you really need them and you can't, you can't really do it yourself or you probably shouldn't.
Amy: yes.
Friend: I like
Amy: Yeah.
Friend: So in effect, you could go to a dinner party and introduce yourself as a plumber.
Amy: Hi, I'm a tile setter. Yeah. Nice to meet you.
Friend: Do you think that that would be more of a conversation starter or conversation opener then? Hi, I'm an accountant?
Amy: Yeah, I do think so. I have tried in the past to come up with an interesting way to describe my job. Everyone knows what an accountant is when you just say I'm an accountant and then you get the response of, oh, you must be really good at math. They're like, oh, boring. are the standard standard ones. Like, oh, do you count beans all day? Yes. That's what I do.
Friend: Yes, fava beans. What I what I get is, oh, and then, uh, turn, they just turn their body away to the person sitting on their other side.
Amy: Yeah.
Friend: get that one too.
Amy: Uh, yeah, I think people have at least like a enough understanding of an accountant to be like, oh, boring.
Friend: It's too bad. We've mapped it that way.
Megan: It's interesting as someone on the other side of the aisle though, because what I do is like labeled as exciting and nine times out of 10, it's still kind of boring, right? Like I'm still doing the same task as. Person who does a job, like I'm emailing people. But they picture me like, you know, covered in paint and like smoking cigarettes or whatever they picture.
And I'm like, no, I was like emailing a client today.
Friend: Yeah.
Megan: It's not, it's also boring.
Friend: have managed to find myself bored in every single job I've ever done, but I've also managed to find interests. You know, I think it's a little bit like, no job is boring if you know how to spark a light.
Megan: Yeah.
Friend: Well, thanks for giving us a little bit of insight into the career. I think that's, helpful for people to hear a different perspective and what I would like to do if you don't mind is this is not an audit.
Megan: got a lot of accounting jokes.
Friend: That was my joke. is talk about your, personal approach to finances a little bit.
We have a comfort scale and then a sort of MoneyMind grid. Did you have a chance to look at either of those?
Amy: Yes, briefly.
Friend: Thoughts on placment?
Amy: On the money, mind grid I am in the top left quadrant, I would say I'm more of a saver. I'm more logical, I'll spend money on nice things or things that I've about for a long time. It's not that I'm against ever spending money, but in general, I'm more of a saver.
Friend: What would qualify as something that you would be like it's worth spending and you've done all the research and you're ready, like a house or like a car or a pair of
shoes.
Amy: Yeah, like, shoes, clothes. I'll always go for quality on those. I try to. Or like house things, things that I use often. I'd rather buy an expensive thing, then multiple cheap things.
Megan: Yeah.
Friend: Yeah.
Amy: But even that I think is more like the logical side. It's not like, oh, this thing is beautiful and I must have it.
It's like, well, it's more practical to buy the expensive thing that's going to last longer. Or if it's comfort, I will always spend money for comfort. Like for better quality shoes that are comfortable yeah. That'll get me every time.
Megan: Oh, my gosh, what a hit to our target audience, because she was like, really start mattering at our age.
Amy: Yes.
Megan: Like, oh, I can't have those cheap ones.
I'll die, you know?
Amy: Well, especially as here in New York and walking all the time or you're walking all the time.
Friend: Yeah. And what about how comfortable are you just so we know where are you on the comfort scale? One to 10.
Amy: Like to talk about it, or just like in my own experience?
Friend: ..Both.
Amy: Yeah, I'm comfortable in my own skin with money. talking about it. I always get a little bit like, so I'm probably more like a six when we go to talking about it. Just cause you're like, I don't know what the other person's standards are and I don't know what they're going to judge me for, but I'm happy with myself. So at this point in my life.
Friend: So In an audience of one, no problem. Audience of two or more, red flags.
Megan: Um, so it sounds like you're like a normal person.
Amy: Yeah, well, that's good.
Megan: Well, just like a generally nice human. I mean, you're taking into account. You don't want to hurt someone else's feelings because with money, we know there's a lot of feelings wrapped up in it. That's the tricky part of this whole conversation. Right.
Okay. Well, that's fascinating.
Friend: Interesting. I could probably learn something, I think, because I am so comfortable. I forget others are not. And then I just like start talking about it and then I at least can read faces. So I know when to stop once I've started. But sometimes I forget before I start that not everyone wants to talk about all the details, so, We'll try to keep this, gentle, you know, not, not too invasive.
Megan: You're not like a total sociopath for the record. Our friend here is like saying like she just blurts out money facts. No, you don't do that.
Friend: I remember one particular conversation in which Amy was involved with a group of girls. I was trying to. Get to the conversation that we've just had, but you can hear Amy's elegant way of saying like, well, I, you know, I care about quality and whatever. And I just was like, if something is not $250 or more, it's not worth buying.
I need it to be more than that so that I really have to like, think about the quality and think about, and then people were like,
Megan: Like this, woman's never bought a cheap shirt.
Friend: Yeah. She's never bought a t-shirt or her shoes are all.
Anyways, then I went home and I was like that. Wasn't what I meant. I meant to be like, if they're at a certain price point, it, it should make you think about it should help you to rationalize the purchase, you know, think about your options.
Make sure you. Quality. Um, don't just buy things mindlessly from the internet. That's what it was. But it
came across, like, I have so much money that my t-shirts
underwear are
all
Megan: expensive.
Amy: don't stop for anything under two
50. So.
Megan: No, but I appreciate what you're
saying. Like, as someone who will fully admit that I don't have like tons of extra spending money each month for like just random careless purchases. I appreciate the fact that you have sort of a benchmark. For like, I'm not going to buy a bunch of junk. It's more of your way of saying, like, let me just take a breath and research something before I spend a bunch of money on
nonsense, you
Friend: Exactly.
Megan: I think that's sort of an American shopping is we just buy stuff.
Friend: All right. Toward the personal side of things, then do you manage the finances for your family? And do you do your own taxes, budgeting, that kind of thing.
Amy: Yes, I do manage all the family finances. I do our own taxes. I filed them this morning, actually.
Friend: Congratulations in two countries or just one?
Amy: Just one I have not forayed into the European tax system yet. And it, yeah, that kind of just happened by default. Like I had just naturally take care of it and it's never been a, a discussion really.
Cause I don't mind doing it.
Megan: And you're better at it.
Amy: Yeah. Well also, thank you. It's better for everyone. If I handle
Friend: What are some of the most useful or liberating things about being in that position in the house? Being the person who is the boss of the money.
Amy: Well, I like being in control, so it lets me be in control, which is nice. And I just like knowing, like, oh yeah, we can afford that this month or no, we shouldn't like order out tonight because I saw yesterday we're close to maxing out the budget or whatever. I like that it gives me the power
I liked that it informs my decisions.
Friend: Yeah. And then it's harder to argue with you cause you're well-informed with the facts and the dollars.
Amy: That's right the numbers don't lie.
Friend: I like that part too. I get, excited with the knowing, you know, I like knowing where the money is and where it's come from and where it's going. We look at the highlight reel of people's lives on Instagram, but there's two people who know in your life if you should, you know, continue with the business or if you should just go find a job, right?
Your accountant and your banker, they both, they get to have that insight that intimate information about you. And I think that makes accountants biographers of truth, right? It's like they're writing your story.
Amy: That's my new email signature.
Friend: I think you should take it. It would be so perfect for you.
Anyways, we get, we get that kind of inside information in my work. I'm sure you do in yours. The question here for you is, do you find, or do you think that having that insight into others and your own, do you think that that helps you with making decisions? Like, do you pull personal wisdom from that or confidence in making your own decisions because you've seen such variation in earning and spending and profitability?
Amy: Yeah, that's a good question. Maybe I should take my client's lessons, more to heart. Instead of, I kind of am like, ah, work and life they're separate. But I would say one thing that I have really learned from being in the weeds of your client's financials is maybe you could equate it to, like you said, the highlight reel, like it's almost like looking at someone's life behind their Instagram or behind their social media, because you might see like a really cool client and they're popular, but we, as the accountancy, like, oh, yikes. Like this is yeah, like I'm worried for them. So I think that's what I've learned is not to just trust the exterior. And that gives you perspective and the rest of your life to like, oh, everything might look amazing on the outside, but I've seen over and over again where the cool flashy clients are often the ones the most trouble.
Friend: That was my experience as well when I had a role where I had that access because bankers take the financial statements that the accountants produce and we assess them and decide whether we're going to lend money. And I had one client. This is in another country, in another firm so I don't mind sharing that um, he had three Bentley's
Megan: Red flag.
Friend: and other things it was sort of a lifestyle that would go along with that. And yet he was, he would call me like once or twice a week and be like, I need, I need you to help me. Like I need cash. And, and was sort of looking to the bank to fund what looks. Exactly. And so his, and then I would talk to his employees and, his accountant so I would hear from these people, who'd be like, we don't understand, like, why is the business struggling? Why are we, why can't we get the inventory we need, and he's, you know, look at his life and it was this, like, they could kind of understand the disconnect, but they didn't truly know the way that the accountant and I knew what the problem was.
The problem was that he was taking the money from the bank and buying Bentley's. Right. so I figured you would have some insight and stories like that.
Amy: Yeah. I think one along that line, another thing I've kind of learned by all these years of looking at client's financials is probably the ones that are the most successful what I would call successful, just stable, growing, doing well as a business. They're not too focused on their accounting and their financials because we have some clients that are like insane control freaks about their financial statements and their taxes, whatever.
And then we have ones like the ones I mentioned who don't care at all, and everything's crazy, but probably the best ones, or like the most stable long-term are the ones in the middle who are like, not worried about every single tiny detail of their financials, but they pay enough attention that it's not a disaster by the time it gets to me.
Megan: It really struck a chord.
Friend: I was going to say, Megan,
Megan: I'm like gesturing in the background because I have, you know, one sleepless night, per month, not due to my children, but because of my own being the CEO, CFO, everything right. Just me. So I have to worry about the money, right. But I don't have every night to do that. I can't, I have to actually function, but I also, you know, we had an episode on risk-taking I'm willing to take a risk, but it's like a micro risk because I know kind of what the boundaries are that I've, self-imposed like our friend here who will only spend $250 or more on a t-shirt.
Friend: They're nice. T-shirts.
Amy: Must be very nice.
Friend: I'll link to them in the show notes.
Megan: We'll make a ton um, you know, affiliates,
but I think that's great advice for small businesses because there is so much risk, right. I'm just thinking right now, like, should I go get 10 more things framed for the show I have going on? Well, 10 more things framed as a ton of money to me on my budget.
Right. But it's a small risk if you think of the grand scheme of things. So I'm constantly wrestling with these small versus scary decisions and it's like, Staying in the middle is hard.
Amy: It is hard.
Friend: Well, that was good. Interesting. So next question is. We wanted to tap into your wisdom for, for our audience. We've got an audience of many creatives out there, and we're trying to provide a safe and enjoyable space for them.
maybe to first tolerate and then maybe come to embrace, maybe enjoy someday dealing with and talking about money. And we were wondering if you have any suggestions for our listeners who don't manage any assets. Of their personal or business finances right now. But that if we're honest, maybe they should. How would you suggest one could start to get a better understanding of personal finances or maybe tax requirements?
Amy: Yeah, I would start, if you're not doing anything currently, I would start with using a tool like Mint from Intuit or there's another one called Personal Capital. There's a couple software tools out there that you can link all your bank accounts, your credit cards, your loans, whatever. And it will pull in all the transactions.
It'll even categorize it for you. So that's like a very low bar to entry just to be able to see what am I spending. How much debt do I have. And you can use whichever tool you like the best, whichever one your situation the best, but that's a good place to start getting a handle on where am I at?
What am I spending? How does that stack up to what I'm earning? A lot of those tools, you can like set goals right in the tool and track your savings or investment progress. So something, I think that's a super easy place to start if you're not doing anything. If you're running a small business and overwhelmed with all the requirements, which it is overwhelming, it's ridiculous how many requirements there are for small businesses. I would honestly. If I could make a recommendation and I'm not trying to plug accountants here, but I would find like a, someone that you trust, like a friend or a paid professional tax advisor, business advisor, to take those things off your plate because your job is, do your business and not worry about what are the tax laws, like I mentioned earlier, you don't want to get so lost in what are the accounting rules and the tax rules that you're taking up brain space that you could be using to be creative. So I would just say delegate that work to someone else, and it's still great to have a tool.
You know, whether that's like QuickBooks or Mint or whatever platform you personally like, just so you can look and see how are things going and how am I doing, but I wouldn't get too lost in the ins and outs and I would let someone else do that. And you focus on your business.
Friend: Yeah, that sounds good. So it's, it's like basic categorization start to understand the categories of things and then use an expert. I mean, we do it for like, we go to a dentist, you know,
Megan: Right. Not like cleaning my own teeth.
Friend: Exactly. Like we we use professionals in so many other areas in life. I'm not sure why we would resist in this area.
Megan: That's so true.
Friend: Good advice. I like that. All right. A couple more for you, and then I'll let Megan take over and it will get maybe more
Megan: Weirder it's gonna get crazy.
Friend: Um, what is your measure of success when it comes to personal finances? And do you set goals to get there?
Amy: I'm generally pretty happy if all my bills are paid at the end of the month, that's a good month in my books. We try to stay in debt free as much as possible. That's been a good one for us. it's a good boundary to set. I think.
Friend: All debt?
Amy: We have said mortgage is okay. A home debt is okay, but nothing else.
Megan: Like no car, car debt?
Amy: No car debt, no student loans. No credit cards. Well we have credit cards, but we pay them off every month. So the only that we have right now is a mortgage.
Megan: That's amazing.
Amy: That's been really good. And that also helps you make decisions, financial decisions more easily. If you'll have to take on debt to do it or not.
Goals. We always try to have like three to six of living expenses and savings. I think that's a pretty kind of standard one. I know not everyone's able to do that. And that can be really hard to achieve but we knew it tried to do that. Um, we're not always, we don't always have that, but we try to get back there if we, uh, to use some for something else.
Friend: That's very textbook.
Amy: Yes. Yeah. It's like nothing fancy, but it works.
Megan: You're making it sound like pretty chill, but
Amy: Yeah, it's tough.
Megan: You're making a huge decision, like buying a new house, it's like, okay, what gives?
Amy: Yeah. It difficult. It all sounds easy. I mean, that's like every time you look at the like 10 basic personal finance principle, that sounds easy, but it's not.
Friend: Well, I think the key is that it's simple, but not easy. Simple is okay. You know what to do. You just have to work hard at it.
Megan: Definitely not easy to implement, but that's true. That's what makes it like an actual goal.
Friend: Yeah. All right. Last question. And then we'll transition toward Megan's questions. So when I think about accounting work, I imagine that it can be, intellectually exhausting, you're making decisions all day, trying to get the categories, right. Trying to follow the rules. And, one might get to the end and just feel done and tired and not have a lot of creative energy left. Is that a fair assumption?
Amy: Yes.
Friend: So given that style of work, do you personally have any creative or artistic joys that you make time for, or that you would like to?
Amy: Yeah, I obviously, as an accountant, I'm not a very creative person. I struggled. To do like art or music or creative things. One thing right now, we just bought a and where it's a major fixer-upper. So that's forcing me to flex my creative muscles because we have to pick tile patterns and flooring. So that in a way is forcing me to be draw on my artistic side and then try to visualize how is this all gonna come together and color palettes. So that at the moment is, is my creative hobby.
Friend: And do you find that fun or stressful ,or
Amy: It's stressful. It's very stressful for me.
Megan: This is, so this is so good to hear as a person on the other side of the brain, because. What stresses you out is like opposite, right? She's like, God, I just love running the numbers.
Amy: The numbers are predictable.
Megan: True. True. But I think it's more about like what you've, you've decided you're good at, right?
Because I've decided I'm bad at numbers. And this part of this podcast is like forcing ourselves to do something more, like not great at right. We're flexing the muscles. So I loath the tax days and then I sit down and do it and it's like two hours and I'm done. And I'm like, that seems like a little dramatic.
I could have just done it. It's like going for a long run or know, or like doing something that seems really difficult. And then you're done and you're like, well, I'm relieved. That felt great.
Amy: Yeah.
Megan: So same with house repair. Imagine at a point you'd be like, that was a great process.
Amy: Yes. Hopefully.
Megan: Okay. Well, creative time will come to you. Also as a new mom, you just don't have the bandwidth for it now you created a human that is all.
Friend: Congratulations. You get a pass.
Megan: Yeah, you would literally get like several years off.
Amy: Yes.
Friend: Is there something you would like to pick up when you have more time or when you're, you know, for your own creative brain?
Amy: This, is my like unrealistic big dream of the moment speaking of house renovations, I have become like mildly obsessed with antique tile patterns. And I want to become like a restoration tile person. You know, those cool, like 1930s, like mosaic tile. Oh.
Megan: That's so cool. But also, so related to what you do for a living,
Amy: I know.
Megan: Not to roast you, cause we just met, but wow.
Amy: Hi, I here are your financial statements. Um, do you need the new tile floor by any chance?
Megan: No, but it's like the same skillset. It's like, let me organize your finances and then I will organize your tiles.
Amy: Yes. Well, when I was telling my husband about it, he was like, Perfect for you because it's like, here's the pattern .Sit here and put things where they go.
Megan: That's amazing.
Friend: It's probably therapeutic for your brain as well. I could see that being relaxing.
Amy: Yes. pre-baby. I was very into paint by numbers, which don't judge me. It is so much fun. It's so soothing. You don't have to think all. You just do. And it's so nice.
Megan: Yeah.
Friend: That's cool. See there when we just had to dig a little bit you're you started off by saying I'm not creative, but you are,
Amy: We'll paint by number is not, I'm not creating anything. I'm just following the instructions, but it's very therapeutic.
Megan: Yeah. It's like a mindless therapeutic task
Amy: Yes.
Megan: Relaxing.
Friend: And the tile work is.
Megan: Yeah.
Amy: Yeah, cause they'd have to come up with the pattern and
Friend: Yeah, cool.
Megan: Okay, love it. All right. I'm going to just start firing away with crazy questions. The first I would like to know is, do you love your job?
Amy: No, is my gut response. No.
Friend: That's fair. We like honesty.
Megan: You don't even have to say why, like you can just say no. Do you have a favorite artist and do you like to go or view original art?
Amy: I am honestly obsessed with children's book illustrations.
So I would say, and that's my art that I view and not just because I have a baby, but also pre-baby somehow children's book illustrations are just beautiful.
Megan: It's very magical, you know, Oliver Jeffers. He's like one of my favorites, his illustrations tell the story, Like these people are very talented at like both telling a story and just having an image.
Amy: Yes.
Megan: Do you go to art museums?
Amy: I do not, not as a regular activity. No.
Megan: Would you rather go to a museum with a person who would tell you more about the paintings instead of alone, where you have no idea?
Amy: Yes.
Megan: Okay. I'll be in the Netherlands soon. Just kidding.
Amy: Come show me everything.
Megan: But I appreciate that because I'm married to an analytical person and he prefers when I explained things to him, which is great. Cause you know, I like to explain things.
Friend: I felt the same when Megan came to visit, I mean, she lived in New York, but then she left and came back and we went to the met together and I had been to the museum five times and it was like seeing it for the first time.
Megan: Oh, that's like the best compliment.
Friend: it was like a personal tour. It was awesome.
Megan: As a chatty person, that's a nice thing to say. Also, I just figured out my retirement job, which is old lady docent.
Amy: Oh that's perfect.
Megan: Oh my gosh guys. Thanks for that. All right. How do you personally, as an accountant, approach, helping small businesses thrive in the moment, we kind of mentioned this earlier, but then earn more money or earn more over time.
Amy: Yeah, depending on the client. I think it's really pointing out areas where there, this is going to sound mean, but pointing out areas where they're failing. That's what I see is like, oh, your metrics in this area or off the benchmarks or whatever, you've decided you want it to be. so that's kind of just raising those issues to the client or the business owner and saying, Hey, here's where you're not doing well. You can point out here's where you're doing well, but that doesn't really help them like change something. It's just like, Hey, keep doing what you're doing. But if you point out. Here's where you are, could improve then. Yeah. That helps them overtime.
Megan: I have a perfect example for artists or creatives listening to this. So related to that would be, I used to sell prints like often, but the work that went into selling the print first, I had to get it printed. Then I had to. Package them all myself. Then I have to go to the post office and wait in line and mail the print.
And I'm only earning $30 per print, you know? And it's like that, that time and money and brain power can be used much more wisely. So I would want an accountant to flag that be like these $30 that you're making aren't adding up worth your time.
Amy: Yeah.
Megan: It's like a small example, but, but I get what you're saying.
Friend: Think the benchmarks, there are really great thing that maybe we can dive into another time that just, just the concept that there are benchmarks like there, and it's different by industry and by type of business. But it's not, it's not a mystery, how much it makes sense to spend on certain things versus others there, you know, Amy, would you say that you would be able to Google
Amy: Yeah, you can find them pretty easily by industry. Just Google, what should I be spending on payroll for my industry or for rent or overhead, those kinds of things and they're just industry standards. So you might decide, well, I pay more for rent cause I, the location is really important to me. You can modify it for your situation, but can find kind of the generally accepted amounts or percentages.
Megan: it's kind of like when you're young and starting out and they're like, make sure you don't spend X amount from your paycheck on your rent, things like that. Right.
Okay.
Friend: Yeah.
Every industry has it. It's the same for banks by the way, banks have benchmarks. They need to have this much capital set aside and they need to have this kind of a return right. It's it's just a matter of understanding for your space. What are the right numbers?
Megan: Interesting.
Friend: Yeah.
Megan: This makes me want to call my tax guy, but I, I don't actually, I shouldn't call him. I'd have to wait until after the deadline. No, I just check in sometimes and he's like, oh my God. Hi, Megan.
Amy: Go away until the 15th.
Megan: I just think I'm the most cautious artists out there truly. I'm like, I have one more question and he's like, stop, we'll talk in May. Okay. I have a confession and a small story for you. I'm a math high school dropout because anyone who knows me as listening from high school, you're all giggling because I was, it was suggested to me that I pursue other options because I was literally running out of my pre-calculus classroom, like jogging away from class because I couldn't my brain couldn't handle it, like, I basically just ran away. What do you tell people, especially younger women who are fearful of numbers or are fearful of math because I I'm already getting a super calm vibe from you. And I think you would be great with like telling teenage girls, like chill. You can handle this. I'm speaking for the math phobes and I would love your advice to us. Like, how do you tell a young woman, especially, you tell you I have a daughter, but like, how do we tell these girls? Like, it's not that big of a deal and, or be confident regardless.
Amy: Yeah, from an accounting perspective, I think if someone wants to be an accountant or wants to be in finance or banking or whatever career trajectory they want, you really only need a basic understanding of math. Like you do not need to be advanced in math. If that, if math is not your jam, don't worry about it.
Don't stress.
Friend: Amen. It's about understanding patterns and underlying reasons and how things relate to each other. And it's about thinking it's not about calculating.
Megan: Okay. I'm like fluctuating between like wanting to just laugh maniacally and like full rage. Because I can't imagine that these people are telling people, oh, you're just not good at that. Like that, that rules out so many career options for people, especially women. Like they're doing this to little girls and saying like, you're not that good at math.
Amy: But there's so many career options out there that don't require math. Like, unless you want to be a math professor, who cares if you're not good at math?
Megan: Hello.
Amy: Like there's so many ways around. And along the way in my whatever, 10 plus years as an accountant, I've learned things along the way. I've learned Excel, formulas and things I've had to learn, but I think that's what I'd say too. You'll learn the things you need to learn to be successful. If you don't understand pre-calculus not going to hurt you.
Megan: A common misconception I'm hearing here is that dealing with money and confidence with money is not completely related to mathematics. Right?
Amy: It's very unrelated.
Megan: I'm shocked.
Friend: That's good.
Megan: There's our soundbite. I feel better, like, can I call her all the time?
Amy: You just call me anytime.
Friend: I love talking to Amy makes me feel better. It's like therapy.
Amy: Just need a calm, soothing voice.
Megan: Yeah. All right. We're going to fire away with some just real quick rapid fires, the tinier, the answer to the better.
Amy: Cool.
Megan: Dogs or cats.
Amy: Cat. That's my tiny answer. Get it?
Megan: Yes. Tik, TOK or Instagram?
Amy: Instagram slash neither.
Megan: Yeah, neither. I knew the answer was neither.
Yeah. You analog people. You don't need social media.
Amy: I'm too busy painting by numbers. People.
Megan: Well, there is something chaotic about social media, which I can understand to an analytical mind is not necessary.
I agree too chaotic. Um, QuickBooks or Sage?
Amy: Quick books. A hundred percent.
Megan: Tea or coffee?
Amy: Coffee.
Megan: Black?
Amy: Yes.
Megan: Homemade bread or local Dutch cheese?
Amy: Um, bread.
Megan: So hard though. Honolulu or New York?
Amy: New York.
Megan: New York always wins. Paper or eBooks?
Amy: Paper.
I need to, I like to feel it.
Megan: Worst subject in school?
Friend: Is that physical education?
Megan: I'm sorry. But that like, that, really fits the stereotype. Okay. Favorite book?
Amy: Oh, I loved the 21 balloons.
Megan: I don't know that.
Friend: I don't know that either. We'll have to look it up.
Megan: Okay. Favorite place to travel?
Amy: Oh. South of France.
Friend: Yes,
Amy: That's like my very bougie answer, but it's true.
Megan: I mean, once you've been there, you're like this isn't wrong. This is right. It's like spending a lot on a t-shirt. I've circled back now twice that.
Friend: I will. I was gonna delete it the first time. So now we have a problem.
Megan: No, no, it's staying, it's staying. Amy, thank you so much for doing this and being with us today, we really appreciate your time and talking to you was relaxing, which is shocking because you are in fact an accountant. And I just said relaxing. Where can people find you on the internet and, or do you want to be found?
Amy: I don't have a website. I have an Instagram account, but I'm not active on it.
Megan: Okay,
Amy: Email.
Megan: Sure.
Amy: Call me.
If you want to. Probably the best so they can go through, you can filter it, pass it on or something.
Friend: All right, so if anyone's interested in a super chill and very wise accountant ..
Amy: My Instagram handle too. They can DM me, whatever I don't mind, like if people have questions and want to talk, I'm happy to chat but as long as they know, I don't do taxes. And I'm not certified to do that anymore.
Megan: Fair deal. Okay. Last question. The former teacher in me really wants to know, do you have, like a question or a suggestion? We call it a homework assignment that we can our listeners?
Amy: I would challenge the listeners to release their stress over finances. Just focus on doing what you love and the rest will follow.
Friend: Wow. That's so good. So just like drop it. Are You saying, just drop it?
Amy: You still have to pay attention to it, but really the associated stress it's going to be okay.
Megan: I feel better. Thank you.
Friend: That was good. I liked that assignment.
Megan: Thank you. so much. I feel like way better.
Amy: Yeah.
I'll chat with you guys any time, interview or not.
Friend: Awesome. This was so good.
Amy: Yeah. Thanks guys.
Friend: So that brings us to the end of today's show. Now I said it wasn't going to be too sweaty and that Amy was super cool and it was going to be fine. What do you think?
Megan: That's like the opposite of I was cold. No, I really felt so relaxed by her ideas. And honestly, the best takeaway for a small business owner who feels fearful is that you can hire a professional.
Friend: Yeah.
Megan: Like that's the end of it.
Friend: Yeah. And focus on what set out to do.
Megan: Right. And it's okay to like, take this a step at a time. I always feel like I have to like bite off all of the things right. And, and know everything. And that's just ridiculous. That's too much. She was so calming.
Friend: Yeah. pragmatic. Assured.
Megan: It's so nice to hear from a woman who's like very confident. She wasn't asking us to approve what she does. She was just like, this is what I do. And I'm really good at it. Period.
Friend: I was thinking Megan, Amy's homework assignment was actually, a simple one.
It was take something off your plate. It was stop doing what you're doing so nice. Right. So I was wondering if we could be a little cheeky and add in something for the listeners. In addition to that, I think it's time for us. It's simple, but I think it's time, you know, we're, we're seven episodes in, we're so grateful for those of you who have listened all the way through and are giving us the positive feedback we love hearing from you about what you like and some questions that you have. What, I'm wondering is would you help us out and tell a friend?
Megan: And rate and review ..Would please.
Friend: Oh no. Megan's starting to Megan's starting to beg.
Megan: I just don't think people understand. it's like we have to win at the algorithm game in this way. So like, just hit those five stars and carry on with your day.
Friend: That's right. Hit follow, hit five stars, share an episode, go onto the podcast page, around, send us some questions. We're loving it. We're having fun.
It's so much fun, but it's a lot of work. And what we're trying to do is create something to give back.
I think it's okay for us to ask and say like, Hey.
Megan: Word just, you know, spy on us a little.
Friend: Yeah, just like get in our business.
Megan: In the website and kind of poke around. You know, that vibe when you were little and you'd just be like, Hmm, wonder what's in here. Anyways, but thank you all for your loving and keep telling everyone you know about us.
Friend: As always, for listening to The Arts.
Megan: This is Megan of Art by Megan.
Friend: And her friend, your patron of the arts.
Megan: Wishing you more art.
Friend: And maybe, a better understanding of your money.
All right. Have a good one. Bye.